|
|
This topic is locked - replies are not allowed.
Barack Obama was elected the 44th president of the United States, as the country chose him as its first African American chief executive.
Share your thoughts on this historic election.
|
Posts:
3,205
Registered:
5/8/06
|
|
(14776 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:44 PM
|
> > I haven't seen any of it. But those guys should
> be
> > treated just as if they had used their pistols
> and
> > shot somebody.
>
> I disagree with you here, too. If they show
> restraint, that needs to be recognized. If you treat
> them like they shot somebody, then next time... they
> may as well shoot somebody.
Says who? Cops who shoot suspects are not more likely to shoot others to avoid investigations. Why would tazering be any different?
And just because a cop shoots doesn't mean the suspect is killed. There's an investigation even if the cop misses.
If a cop uses that tazer, then he better be prepared to back it up why he felt he needed to do that, preferably to a civilian panel.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,183
Registered:
6/23/09
|
|
(14775 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:43 PM
|
RainyKincaid
> If the State tests the dna of every citizen so that
> they can match organ transplant list patients with
> citizens whose organs are a perfect match, should the
> state be allowed to order any of us to give another
> one of our kidneys? And if that patient should die
> without our kidney, are we murderers for not giving
> them one?
>
> I'm PRO-CHOICE
>
> My body, my decisions. Your body, your decisions.
Considering you're for gov't run healthcare, they will be deciding what we eat, and what we do, and what treat we should get or entitled to, I suppose they might as well, decide that, at least in your world.
A baby is not like a kidney. A baby is a life. Also, two people are involved when it comes to babies.
I'm PRO-CHOICE
My body, my decisions. Your body, your decisions.
You sound like a child. A baby is not a right, and it is not property, it is a gift, and it is a life.
While no one today is concerned with what the constitution says, a few words give us all we need. We have the RIGHT to LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. You taken away the baby's rights by your choice. No, life, no liberty, no pursuit of happiness.
Your willing to protect the worst amongst us, but are unwilling to protect the best.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,969
Registered:
10/22/06
|
|
(14774 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:38 PM
|
> > > > No. ZERO dead children. There is a
> > difference
> > > > between a child and a fetus.
> > >
> > > Yeah and in that partial birth procedure
> the
> > > difference is what? About 3 minutes?
> > >
> > Time is not the relevant factor. The relevant
> factor
> > is the choice of the mother, and the birth
> process.
> > In such cases, isn't there usually a medical or
> > r legal reason why the abortion wasn't done
> earlier?
> > Something other than mere procrastination?
>
> So absent a legal or medical reason it's murder?
>
No, it's only murder if the birth already occurred.
> > >
> > > Well, they charge muggers and batterers for
> the
> > death
> > > of a fetus.
> > >
I don't agree with that, either.
> > Only in cases where the mugger/batterer was
> clearly
> > the one who caused the event. But if it is to
> be
> > always considered a death, then in those cases
> where
> > the mother was the only person present, then
> the
> > mother should be investigated, right?
>
> The point is why charge the mugger at all? He hasn't
> caused the death of anything according to you.
>
Correct, he hasn't. But he has committed an assault, so charge the mugger for the assault on the mother.
>
>
> > > That's absurd Don, this horse shit is
> beneath a
> > man
> > > of your obvious intelligence.
> > >
> > Of course, it's absurd! But legally, it is
> exactly
> > what you open the door to when you maintain that
> a
> > fetus is the same as a child, has the same right
> to
> > life as a child, and that causing its death is
> > morally the same as causing the death of a
> child.
> > You just haven't thought it through, because
> your
> > r biases are getting in the way.
>
> Oh I respectfully disagree. At some point that fetus
> is going to become viable without the mother, at
> which point you are killing a child.
>
That point, legally, is after birth.
> You want to draw a moral distinction between a fetus
> and a child, but you have no reasoning to back that
> up.
>
I have, and have presented some of it. The rest... is there a birth certificate on the fetus? The fetus is not classified as a person, under the law. A pregnant mother, for example, cannot use the car pool lane, and doesn't have to buy a separate movie ticket, doesn't have to pay a sharing charge in a restaurant, doesn't have to pay double or multiple occupancy fees...
> Oh sorry, I thought you were defending the morality
> of killing a child by declaring it an unchild.
Killing a child? Never. Prove the fetus is a child, and I'll consider the proof. Presently, all you've shown is the future event that might have occurred. Or not.
|
|
|
Posts:
3,205
Registered:
5/8/06
|
|
(14773 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:37 PM
|
> > At this point we can either send a message to
> the
> > community that when the police show up you have
> a
> > civic responsibility to be courteous, respectful
> and
> > co-operative or.........you can send a message
> to the
> > police that when they go to a citizen's house
> they
> > are no longer cops, they're fucking doormen.
>
> Actually, they need to be sent a message that
> enforcing the law is no justification to ignore the
> rights of those confronted. And that when two races
> are involved, the race card is almost always in play
> now... just as it was before the 1950's. It's just
> that now, either side can play the card, and you
> don't like it when it's played against you.
>
> When dealing with a minority who have too often been
> treated as though they have no rights, and in many
> places and incidents still are treated that way, it
> is unacceptable to expect them to cavalierly waive
> those rights.
Except that Gates wasn't giving up any of his rights and wasn't asked to give up any right. He did however refuse to live up to his civic responsibility and conduct himself in a civilized manner.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,183
Registered:
6/23/09
|
|
(14772 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:31 PM
|
Don17000
You're joking, right? When Truman ordered the use of the A-bombs, you think that's not killing people? When any Commander-In-chief signs off an offensive strategy, you think that isn't killing people? When Reagan, Bush1, Clinton, Bush2 or Obama signs an order authorizing a surgical missile strike knowing and intending there would be fatalities, that isn't killing anyone?
And when democrats support people like Dr. Tiller and some like Rainy, call him a hero, keep funding and keep supporting legislation, they are accomplices in the deaths.
Maybe some would have happen, who knows, but the fact is 45 million abortions since 1973.
When it comes to birth control, or contraceptives, use them, don't use them either way you know what can happen.
Who is the victim, the unborn, the most innocent, the most defenseless, and so many are unwilling to protect.
If you rob a bank with a gun, the charges will be more severe, than if you robbed the bank without one.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,969
Registered:
10/22/06
|
|
(14771 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:26 PM
|
> I haven't seen any of it. But those guys should be
> treated just as if they had used their pistols and
> shot somebody.
I disagree with you here, too. If they show restraint, that needs to be recognized. If you treat them like they shot somebody, then next time... they may as well shoot somebody. At least that way, instead of the cop's word against the suspect's... it's just the cop's word, uncontradicted.
|
|
|
Posts:
3,205
Registered:
5/8/06
|
|
(14770 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:22 PM
|
> > > No. ZERO dead children. There is a
> difference
> > > between a child and a fetus.
> >
> > Yeah and in that partial birth procedure the
> > difference is what? About 3 minutes?
> >
> Time is not the relevant factor. The relevant factor
> is the choice of the mother, and the birth process.
> In such cases, isn't there usually a medical or
> r legal reason why the abortion wasn't done earlier?
> Something other than mere procrastination?
So absent a legal or medical reason it's murder?
> > > fetus really are the same thing. Because
> if
> > they
> > > are, then a miscarriage is the same as the
> > accidental
> > > death of a child in the mother's care,
> >
> > That's pretty much the way most women who have
> gone
> > through that tragedy view it.
> >
> > and must be
> > > investigated by the police for criminal
> > negligence.
> >
> > Well, they charge muggers and batterers for the
> death
> > of a fetus.
> >
> Only in cases where the mugger/batterer was clearly
> the one who caused the event. But if it is to be
> always considered a death, then in those cases where
> the mother was the only person present, then the
> mother should be investigated, right?
The point is why charge the mugger at all? He hasn't caused the death of anything according to you.
> > That's absurd Don, this horse shit is beneath a
> man
> > of your obvious intelligence.
> >
> Of course, it's absurd! But legally, it is exactly
> what you open the door to when you maintain that a
> fetus is the same as a child, has the same right to
> life as a child, and that causing its death is
> morally the same as causing the death of a child.
> You just haven't thought it through, because your
> r biases are getting in the way.
Oh I respectfully disagree. At some point that fetus is going to become viable without the mother, at which point you are killing a child.
You want to draw a moral distinction between a fetus and a child, but you have no reasoning to back that up.
The more you try, the worse it will get for your entire argument.
> > At some point the only difference between a
> fetus and
> > a child is whether the mother says yea or nay.
> You mean other than the birth process? That point is
> NOW.
Oh sorry, I thought you were defending the morality of killing a child by declaring it an unchild.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,969
Registered:
10/22/06
|
|
(14769 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:21 PM
|
> > While republicans were calling women who choose
> > abortion murderers, the insurance companies they
> own
> > were paying for men's viagra prescriptions and
> > denying coverage for women's birth control pills
> and
> > other contraceptives.
> >
> > I'm for EQUAL RIGHTS
>
> Viagra is to treat a medical condition. Birth
> control, is not for a medical condition, it is for an
> acted.
Pregnancy is not a medical condition? Are you serious? Yeah, I know, the insurance companies got away with not covering it for women in the workforce by insisting on this position for many years... "Pregnancy isn't an illness, it's a condition she chose to be in..." I thought this kind of crap was one of the things you were saying should be forbidden by gov't regulation.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,969
Registered:
10/22/06
|
|
(14768 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 3:06 PM
|
> If we had a Health Providers Army, we could get the
> pentagon to wrangle funds for R&D on new Weapons
> against Disease and Disability programs! New kinds of
> high tech medical equipment. They're really good at
> that!
>
Aren't we already there? Most of the research being done into artificial limb prosthetics is in military applications. Trauma care has typically made its biggest advances as a result of war casualties, often at the request or lamentation of the military.
Fleming and Waxman discovered penicillin in 1928, but it wasn't until the beginning of hostilities leading to WW2, almost 10 years later that it was developed, and then it was so expensive, that it was recovered from the patient's urine, reprocessed and reused.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,969
Registered:
10/22/06
|
|
(14767 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 2:57 PM
|
> > > The guy is like 57! That ain't ancient.
> >
> > Thought that about time when old age begins,
> well
> > anyway back to original question. If they
> verified
> > all this even if he was being ass about it
> still
> > don't see need to arrest the guy.
>
> Possibly not, but it was still a good thing to do.
>
> At this point we can either send a message to the
> community that when the police show up you have a
> civic responsibility to be courteous, respectful and
> co-operative or.........you can send a message to the
> police that when they go to a citizen's house they
> are no longer cops, they're fucking doormen.
Actually, they need to be sent a message that enforcing the law is no justification to ignore the rights of those confronted. And that when two races are involved, the race card is almost always in play now... just as it was before the 1950's. It's just that now, either side can play the card, and you don't like it when it's played against you.
When dealing with a minority who have too often been treated as though they have no rights, and in many places and incidents still are treated that way, it is unacceptable to expect them to cavalierly waive those rights.
|
|
|
Posts:
3,205
Registered:
5/8/06
|
|
(14766 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 2:50 PM
|
> Long ball what you think of rash of teaser-ing that
> been going of late (as in during this year)? A lot of
> it didn't look necessary.
I haven't seen any of it. But those guys should be treated just as if they had used their pistols and shot somebody.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,969
Registered:
10/22/06
|
|
(14765 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 2:49 PM
|
> > No. ZERO dead children. There is a difference
> > between a child and a fetus.
>
> Yeah and in that partial birth procedure the
> difference is what? About 3 minutes?
>
Time is not the relevant factor. The relevant factor is the choice of the mother, and the birth process. In such cases, isn't there usually a medical or legal reason why the abortion wasn't done earlier? Something other than mere procrastination?
>
> > Maybe it's time you rethink whether a child and
> a
> > fetus really are the same thing. Because if
> they
> > are, then a miscarriage is the same as the
> accidental
> > death of a child in the mother's care,
>
> That's pretty much the way most women who have gone
> through that tragedy view it.
>
> and must be
> > investigated by the police for criminal
> negligence.
>
> Well, they charge muggers and batterers for the death
> of a fetus.
>
Only in cases where the mugger/batterer was clearly the one who caused the event. But if it is to be always considered a death, then in those cases where the mother was the only person present, then the mother should be investigated, right?
>
> > A woman who has had a miscarriage and chooses to
> try
> > y again despite the cautions from her OB-GYN
> that the
> > same result is likely, should be arrested for
> > reckless endangerment if she gets pregnant, and
> if
> > there's another miscarriage, she should be
> charged
> > with negligent homicide as well.
> >
> > Of course, this would also be felony child
> abuse, and
> > any other children should be removed forthwith.
>
> That's absurd Don, this horse shit is beneath a man
> of your obvious intelligence.
>
Of course, it's absurd! But legally, it is exactly what you open the door to when you maintain that a fetus is the same as a child, has the same right to life as a child, and that causing its death is morally the same as causing the death of a child. You just haven't thought it through, because your biases are getting in the way.
> >
> > Do you advocate all that? If not, then stop
> this
> > disingenuous bullshit of not differentiating
> between
> > a fetus and a child.
>
> At some point the only difference between a fetus and
> a child is whether the mother says yea or nay.
You mean other than the birth process? That point is NOW.
|
|
|
Posts:
930
Registered:
8/26/06
|
|
(14764 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 2:47 PM
|
|
Long ball what you think of rash of teaser-ing that been going of late (as in during this year)? A lot of it didn't look necessary.
|
|
|
Posts:
930
Registered:
8/26/06
|
|
(14763 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 2:42 PM
|
> Then why stop at birth? Why would you ever charge a
> woman for infanticide?
Well the line got be drawn somewhere. Cause zero sum game not working out. Cause slippery slop argument can be used both ways. if mass of cells are consider a human being why not sperm and eggs since they can become a human being as well and charge male masturbaters with homicide. We draw lines all the time in life what so wrong with your person when you are born line.
--
Edited by Bumfire007 at 07/26/2009 12:07 PM PDT
|
|
|
Posts:
3,205
Registered:
5/8/06
|
|
(14762 of 15001)
Re: President Barack Obama
Jul 26, 2009 2:38 PM
|
> > At this point we can either send a message to
> the
> > community that when the police show up you have
> a
> > civic responsibility to be courteous, respectful
> and
> > co-operative or.........you can send a message
> to the
> > police that when they go to a citizen's house
> they
> > are no longer cops, they're fucking doormen.
>
> I don't see point of sending that message most of us
> from we are little kids are told to be respectful,
> but doesn't stop people from chewing out the police
> when it comes to them getting a ticket. So do you
> really think Gates opinion of the officers will
> change from the arrest?
Sadly no. He's too egotistical.
Every time I have dealings with the police I always remember that no matter what I'm dealing with a guy who has the authority to ruin my day, and I always have better things to do with my time. Mouthing off to a cop is just plain stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
